That the next generation might know. Psalm 78:6
Churches
Phil Newberry Bellevue Baptist Church
www.Bellevue.org
Memphis, TN
PHIL: I grew up in a pastors home, came to know the Lord at age 7. When I was 13 while at youth camp God called me into the ministry. I felt, even at that young age that I wanted to be a youth pastor. At 16 I was called to my first church, Mason Valley BC in Bentonville Arkansas where I was music and youth director for all of $25 a week. I thought I had arrived. I have been on a church staff ever since, so that's 35 years in the ministry. I have been at Bellevue for 23 years coming here in 1985 from FBC Dallas. I am married to my high school sweetheart, Jeanne. We will celebrate our 32 anniversary this month. God has given us 2 godly, beautiful kids, both called into the ministry. Our son Tyler lives in Breckenridge, Colorado with his wife Leslianne, daughter, Aevyn and son Stone. They are bi-vocational worship leaders in Summit County.
STEVE: What is the greatest lesson you have learned in the past 5 years and how is this shaping your ministry now?
PHIL: The one that comes to mind came through an Andy Stanley book, "The Best Question Ever". This "lesson" teaches that we have been asking the wrong questions in life...is it right, is it wrong, is it lawful, permissible, etc. When the BEST question should be "is it the WISE thing to do". This process of facing life has changed the way I make daily decisions as well as life decisions. It has affected my home, my family and my ministry.
STEVE: For many years in ministry churches have sought more of an entertainment model of ministry. What do you feel has been the outcome of this pursuit?
PHIL: First of all, we can't compete with the world, nor should we. There's an old saying "what you hook them with is what you have to keep them with". There is a lot of truth to that statement. If you hook them with a "dog and pony show" you must continue to provide the show to keep them. Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me". I feel we simply must preach Jesus and with no apologies. We must still do whatever we do with excellence but we must not allow the show (lights, fog, set, band, etc.) to be the point where our attention is drawn. The outcome? Shallow youth groups, spoiled youth groups that expect a "big and better" program, inward focused mentality. I have also seen that no matter what we throw at the kids we can never "please" them. Pizza won't do it any more. We've even used ipod giveaways recently that have had no real benefit in numbers, etc.
STEVE: Do you feel young student pastors are taught that there first ministry is to their families? 1 Tim 3:5.
PHIL: I do not know what seminaries are teaching in this area, I sure hope they are but I do not know. I teach young youth pastors that if they lose their family, they've lost their ministry. We must follow the Biblical standard for this. I don't think they are getting it though. I wonder how much of this mentality is brought on by external pressure to produce. I think we need to educate senior pastors on this matter as well.
STEVE: Why do you feel that parents today have abdicated their role as spiritual disciplers of their children?
PHIL: Dr. Adrian Rogers used to say, "If Satan can't make you bad, he'll make you busy". I think this is the main tool of the enemy these days. We are too busy. We have allowed sports to become a god. We have allowed a busy schedule to tear apart the home. I also feel that parents may be modeling this from how they were raised. In other words, we are seeing the fruit of a previous generation that has allowed society and its philosophy to DO rather than BE to infiltrate the home. I think the rise of technology and entertainment ahs also played a role in this. That is why I am so excited about your new book reThink. I have already given out 30+ to my key leaders to read. I have asked one of my keep parents to come to the rethink conference and come back and help me implement this model. (I have a conflict and can't come).
STEVE: What are a couple of things that you are doing to train parents and your leaders about God's plan to use parents?
PHIL: I recently brought in Richard Ross on a Sunday morning and he spoke to over 500 parents. It was powerful. I have formed a Task Force on this subject to study where we are and where we need to go. They are using rethink to set the tone for our future. This past year has been frustrating in the area of parent training. In fact, I have done fewer things to help in this area because I have been burned so many times with lack of support. Dr. Jay says, "If you keep doing what you are doing you'll keep having what you're having". I for one am not pleased with what we're having so we are going to rethink what we're doing.
STEVE: If you were to make a guess.... What percentage of Christian families do you think have a family worship?
PHIL: Less than 5%.
STEVE: As you look across the landscape of student ministries, what excites you the most?
PHIL: Longer tenures in some churches on their youth staff. Guys like you writing the books that will wake up a generation.
STEVE: If you were asked to share five practical focuses with a room of young student pastors, what would it be?
PHIL: 1. Relationships are everything. 2. The WORD matters use it, preach it. 3. Get back to the basics. 4. Family matters-yours and theirs. 5. JESUS. (That's Jesus period).
STEVE: How long has your church been in the transition to intentionally train parents to disciple their children?
PHIL: Scale of 1-10 we are at a 1. We have a long way to go. But with your help and model I feel we will be much further along this time next year than if we didn't have rethink to guide us and wake us up.
Chris Lovell
Dallas Texas
STEVE: Tell us a little about Chris Lovell?CHRIS: I'm the Minister to Students at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas. I have been married to my wife Amanda for ten years and I have two sons Paxton and Bowman and another child on the way in November (don't know what it is yet?). I have been in full time student ministry for the last 14 years.
STEVE: How many families does your student ministry team minister to?
CHRIS: About 2,000 households
STEVE: You have really been targeting families the past few years. What are some of the things that you are doing?
CHRIS: We don't ever do an event without a Parent Track. We include the parents in Disicple Now Weekends, Beach Camp, etc. by always having a track for the parents so they can be in the loop with what their students are learning then we provide prayer books for them for every event which gives them the opportunity to pray and journal for their students while they are at camp or going through Disciple Now Weekend. We also provide follow up materials for our parents from every event so that the event can continue in the home. We provide "Family Devotionals" for our parents that give them A way to sit down as a family weekly and study the Bible together. These family devotionals track with what we are teaching on Sunday morning as well so the family is reinforcing that for us. It's a really cool thing. We provide seminars quarterly for our parents to get trained on how to "disciple" their students. This includes training on how to utilize our family devotionals as well.
STEVE: How are the parents responding to the resources that you are now providing?
CHRIS: The response has been great. You know changing the thinking of parents will take some time but we are looking at where we will be in five years. Right now we probably have 25% of our families taking us up on these things, but next year we hope to have 35%, then the next 45%, then the next 55%, and then year five 65%. How awesome would that be to think that 65% of our families are discipling their students, received training for it, etc.
STEVE: What has God used in your life to convict you that your ministry had to reach the family?
CHRIS: Well it's kind of like discipline. When the school calls you and says hey we need your help in disciplining your child in a specific area you, go yes I will do that. Then consistency enters your child's life in the home and at school, etc. In the same way, if the church is reinforcing what you are doing at home and vice versa then it really takes root in a students life. Consistency enters. We study the bible at home with our students then it is reinforced at the church or they study the bible at church and we do it in the home. It works and made a lot of sense to me...
STEVE: Are there any plans in the works of other ways you and your team hope will equip parents to become better disciplers?
CHRIS: We are learning every day. We have just in the last two years implemented the things mentioned above. We definitely will be implementing more but all we have done to this point is still very fresh and we are learning and getting better at it every day.
STEVE: What are five key points that you would share with other student pastors?
CHRIS: Make sure you find a way to have what you teach weekly reinforced by your parents in the home, from the stage, from your staff and from your adult leaders. This way everyone is on the same page 2. Inform and Involve Parents in your ministry. 3. Challenge and equip students in their personal time with Christ. This is what lasts forever. 4. Mobilize and train students to share their faith and serve others. 5. Celebrate what God is doing every week. 6. Keep it simple.. Don't overwhelm your students and families... (Sorry I know it was only supposed to be five, but here is number six)
STEVE: Do you think student ministries has
presented the true Gospel well over the past few decades?
CHRIS: I think the church has presented the Gospel
effectively, but I think the follow up to the presentation has been
weak. We need to follow up with the students and parents more
thoroughly after a student accepts Christ.
STEVE: How does your church minister effectively
to students when parents aren't involved?
CHRIS: When a student enters our ministry whose
parents aren't involved then we try to involve them and build a
relationship bridge with them. We invite them to things, we visit
the family to let them know what's available to them through the
church. We have just started trying to give mentors to our students
whose parents aren't believers. This has started with my staff team
taking some of these students under their wings along with our
Men's ministry which has a Timothy project where older men take
students on in a discipleship role.
Kevin Carroll
Student Pastor
Church Of Brookhills, Birmingham, AL
Steve: Please tell us how you came to Christ?Kevin: The first believer that God brought into my life was a biker by the name of Hobo who was a recent convert who had a Harley repair shop in Pasadena, Texas called Hobo's Hog House. I was 22 years old, a pagan and native of Chicago who had never met a professing believer before that time. He planted seeds that were watered 3 weeks later while I was camping with a friend when a young lady came over to our campsite to borrow a can opener for her fruit cocktail. We talked for 6 hours that night and after a major moving of the Holy Spirit I understood for the first time what it meant to be a Christ Follower. At 12:55am in the middle of the East Texas Piney Woods I met Jesus! My life was radically changed and God sent a supernatural cleansing from some major habits which he has delivered me from till this day!
Steve: How did God confirm in you a call to ministry? How long have you been serving the local church?
Kevin: From the moment I became a believer I have had a burden to help teenagers meet Jesus and not go through the problems I had growing up in Chicago. I dropped out of school when I was in 8th grade and I knew I needed to get an education so I took my GED and then went off to Bible College in San Diego, CA I worked with a street kids in CA. I then went to Dallas, TX to finish a couple of degrees and began serving as a youth minister in a small church. I am presently serving at my third church in 26 years of student ministry.
Steve: What are your hobbies?
Kevin: I love to spend time with my wife and kids! I also have a love for old Christian books. I learn so much from the lives of obscure saints who suffered for the cause of Christ! And dead saints don't change their doctrine! I also have a couple of motorcycles that are transportation more than a hobby, but I love my face in the wind!
Steve: What issues do you see the church facing in regards to the Gospel?
Kevin: The watering down of the Gospel truth is worrisome! (Mt 7: 21-23) haunts me. I counsel so many young people who were never Biblically directed to a relationship with Christ. There are many "gospel" philosophies being taught that sound good but are not biblical. I believe (Mt 10:9,13) teach the Lordship of Christ, a complete surrender of one's life, not just a prayer. Repentance and Faith are both necessary! There are organizations and schools teaching that repentance is a work and not required for salvation. This troubles my soul.
Steve: Tell us about the family camp that some of your church families have attended?
Kevin: J H Ranch in California has been a beacon for drawing families together for our Church body. They have Parent- son/daughter camps throughout the summer and hold regional weekend meetings called Outback around the country. I have seen God use this organization to bring the hearts of teenagers closer to their parents and vica versa. My own son and wife went last summer and I saw God do an amazing work in both of them!
Steve: How effective have you and your staff been with genuinely partnering with parents?
Kevin: I wish I could say we have made large strides but I am afraid we are just scratching the surface when it comes to equipping parents to disciple their teenagers. We are however being more intentional with requiring 50% of our time this year being spent in leadership development with parents and adult leaders.
Steve: What have some of these efforts looked like?
Kevin: We are prioritizing our next three years in working ourselves out of a job so to speak. We are approaching the next 3 years with the philosophy of ‘how will we prioritize our time if we only had 3 years like Jesus did in pouring our life in to a small group in carrying out the Great Commission when we are gone'. Parents and leaders of small groups will be that priority. Time, Time and more Time spent with parents in intentional, relational disciple making process.
Steve: What advice would you give to a youth pastor in his mid twenties?
Kevin: Personal solitude with Christ is Fundamental! Be humble and lean on older wiser ministers and parents for advice and godly counsel. I think too many young ministers try and force their ‘ideas' on parents without practical experience in parenting teenagers. Also, to always support and back the parents to the teenagers. I would also suggest having parents over for dinner weekly to build relationships. And try and be in the households of every one of the teens in their ministry.
Steve: Do you think teens would sit through a six hour Bible study?
Kevin: Of course! They are so tired of opinions and so hungry for just the Word! We have bi-yearly Secret Church- Know the Word/ Know the Persecuted events taught by our 29 year old pastor where we have hundreds of teenagers accompany over 2 thousand adults and college age students in these in-depth studies of the Word from 6pm till after midnight. Our teenagers are looking forward to our next session Nov 7th, 2008. We also have had bus loads of teenagers come from several different states to attend these Bible Studies. These are seminary style studies that have covered OT Survey, NT Survey, The Doctrine of God and How to Study the Word of God. These are recorded and translated into 13 different key languages and then sent as teaching resources for the underground church around the world for strengthening the persecuted church. You can download these sessions free at www.brookhills.org under Secret Church. Several youth minister friends are re-teaching this material to their students.
Dr. R. Allen Jackson
Professor of Youth Education New Orleans Baptist Theological
Seminary
3939 Gentilly Blvd. New Orleans, LA. 70126
Steve: You were a student pastor for some time--- Tell us a little of your story?
Allen: I knew I was supposed to be a youth pastor the first time I taught the Bible to a group of youth. I had graduated from college with a business degree and I was interested in finding a job that would lead to financial security by the time I was 30. When a small church in Stone Mountain, Georgia asked me to be their part time youth minister, I accepted and confirmed what God had been telling me about my calling. I served four churches over 15 years as a youth pastor and have been teaching youth pastors for the last 15 years at the New Orleans seminary.
Steve: Some would say that student ministry is in transition as it relates to families. Would your research confirm that? Why or why not?
Allen: I think that research has confirmed and ratified what respected voices have been saying for some time. What used to be assumed in a church culture-that families would attend church together-is no longer valid in a postmodern (some say post-Christian) culture. Since fewer families are coming to church together, it has become more noticeable that family involvement is vital to spiritual maturity in teenagers. Mark DeVries, Jim Burns, and Richard Ross were saying this a decade ago and recent research has caused youth ministers to pay attention to the family dynamic. If we don't involve families, we are not giving students the best possibility to deepen their faith and to sustain that faith into young adulthood.
Steve: You have said that parents have too much time and not enough time. What do you mean by that statement?
Allen: The modern work schedule is frantic. Adults and students have few margins in their schedules. Yet the reputation that some parents have at Little League parks, soccer fields, classrooms, gyms, and other places of "competition" is that they hover over their children and make most if not all of their decisions for them. Not enough time-but we squeeze more into our schedules. Too much time-we won't trust other adults to be fair.
Steve: You have also coined a term "Christian Socialism", please explain?
Allen: The old socialist notion was that the state was best equipped to raise children. Parents were necessary to biologically produce children, but the feeding, education, physical training, and leadership development was best left to the "experts" i.e. the government. Occasionally in contemporary public and private schools there seems to be a climate of distrust between parents and educators. Unfortunately, in some youth ministries as well, there is a practice-I believe it to be mostly unintentional-where the attitude seems to be "drop your student off at youth group and we will take care of the spiritual part of their development." Parents are to take their teenagers home and feed them (except that we do a lot of that too!), but the spiritual nurture should be left to the experts. As I acknowledged in the question above, research has shown that parents need to be intimately involved in the spiritual training and discipling of their children.
Steve: What advice would you give to a young student pastor who sees the biblical call to minister alongside parents but lacks personal experience?
Allen: Take the time to get to know parents. Listen a lot. Sit with them at football games on Friday nights. Enlist them to be a majority of the Sunday morning teaching team. Trust them for feedback and advice. Constantly affirm the value of having lots of adults around. Allow adults to be somewhat self-policing. By that I mean that we can trust them to help us see if a parent or parents are hovering. Mostly, use all the resources at your disposal to help parents learn how to disciple their children starting when they are in grade school, and continuing through their high school years.
Steve: Do you feel churches are hiring guys too young? Is there a different model out there for churches to follow?
Allen: I do not know what too young might be. Obviously if there aren't a few buffer years between the youth minister and the oldest teenagers, there can be issues that detract from the main purpose of youth ministry-partnering with families and other church staff to help students to become maturing disciples of Jesus Christ. Some men and women are very mature for their age and I believe that the sense of balance between being fun and being an adult is more important than chronological age. With that said, I do believe that theological training is vital for youth pastors. In a growing number of churches, the youth pastor is the main voice speaking theology into the lives of youth. The senior pastor is charged with speaking truth and biblical doctrine as he preaches, but the youth pastor is often the person most often in front of teenagers. The youth pastor needs to know how to handle the Word in teaching and preaching venues.
Steve: How should churches minister to parents who have abdicated their spiritual responsibility?
Allen: Youth ministries are uniquely set up to provide surrogates in the form of Sunday school teachers, small group leaders, coaches of sports teams, and sponsors on retreats and camps. The church as a whole should make a concerted effort to cultivate relationships with parents who do not attend church with their children. I like the idea that adults who are similar in age and lifestyle are most effective in the cultivation of those relationships. The responsibility for uniting families in worship and study is far beyond the scope of just youth ministry.
Steve: Some guys feel that their pastor's only concern is numbers. Sunday School attendance and Baptisms. How would you encourage these guys?
Allen: First, I would confirm that their feelings are accurate. I believe that the numerical indicators are one measure of effectiveness in youth ministry. I also believe that we should constantly be hearing testimonies of what the Lord is doing among the youth, youth workers, and youth parents. I suspect that pastors who hear of spiritual victories-even those that so not result in baptism or Sunday school attendance-will be excited to learn of numerical growth in some areas, spiritual depth in others. I do not believe that we can dismiss numerical evaluation nor do I believe that we can hang our hat on it.
Steve: What is NOBTS doing in way of training student pastors in way of understand the "Theology of Family"?
Allen: Interesting phrase. Theology is "thinking about God" and when paired with "family," we end up with a Theology of Family being "thinking about how God thinks of families." We have been fortunate to be included in conversations with researchers like Christian Smith, Wes Black and Walt Mueller who have done great work to expose some of the problems with youth ministry as it has been done in the past 25 or so years. We have been alert to include research, discussion and even some assignments in courses which are part of the youth ministry curriculum. Our core classes all have units which point to ministry to families both from a theoretical and pragmatic point of view. Our newest class is called "Transitioning Youth from High School to College" which is a further acknowledgment of one of the struggles faced by families today.
Kevin Rainey, Student Pastor
The Upper Room
FBC Clarksville
Clarksville, AR
Steve: Tell us about your family and a little about your first youth ministry?
Kevin: I have been married to my beautiful bride for 9 years and have a gorgeous 5 year old girl named Hope and a 7 month old little man named Micah. They are the best that I could have ever dreamed about! God has been so good to us!!! I did a "youth director" job my first year in college and it lasted all of about 6 months...My first Youth Ministry was in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I started out as the intern and then that turned into the full time thing. It was good...busy and fast and a lot of learning on the fly. We grew a lot in numbers, but we didn't grow much in depth. God began working on my heart about the students and their generation not really understanding "their God" and it's been a passion of mine ever since. The ultimate dream would be to see this generation rise up and not prepare to be leaders later, but to lead NOW!
Steve: What is your most embarrassing moment in your life?
Kevin: WOW...that's a tough one. For those of us in this thing, there are so many embarrassing moments! I think my ultimate most embarrassing moment though, was when I saw who I thought to be my wife, and went up and hugged her from behind and whispered, "I love you" and before I could get it out, figured out that it wasn't my wife that I had a full embrace with....yea, there's not much that you can say or do at that moment, besides just put your head down in shame and leave!
Steve: How long have you been seeking to involve parents in your student ministry? Has this been awkward?
Kevin: As a young student pastor, I was really afraid of parents. I was afraid that they would see us as taking over or influencing them in the wrong direction. For a while, I held the mind-set, that parents were the enemy. They just didn't understand what we do and what we are really about. Then I woke up! The Deuteronomy 6 passage really just brought it home to me. So, for the last 8-9 years we have sought to have our parents as an active role in our student ministry. We have not gotten to where we need to be just because, you can't just partly do "parent's ministry!" It's the pinnacle of ministry for student pastors! If we don't focus on parents, we will not be successful in student ministry. Not to just inform them and keep them updated, but to help train them to train their students. This hasn't been awkward, it's been a transition change and change is good...tough but good! The mind-set has changed in the PC [Parent Council] so far and it's been amazing. We really prayed hard for the first set of parents to be on the team and those that we really felt that God could move their hearts into understanding for the Parent Ministry and with the exception of one person, it's been amazing!
Steve: What is the purpose of your Parent Council? How long has it been active? How often do you meet? Kevin: Our PC's purpose is pretty simple: for the church to come alongside these parents, pour into them and train them. Then, they will in turn train other parents. The goal is to be able to reach every parent with the opportunity to be held accountable and to turn back the process and disciple and mentor their own students. We plug 3 main things...1.) Pray: with their students, for their students and etc...2.) Partner: to allow the church to come alongside and invest and pour into their lives, so that they can invest and continually pour into the lives of their students and 3.) Practice: It's not just something you wake up and you have it figured out. It is a continual thing that we must ALL work on. Our three goals for the Upper Room are: 1.) Teach Truth 2.) Love Students and Families 3.) Guide them to Jesus. So within this context, our purpose and goals are already set! We want to "impress" on them the Word and the Truth of Scripture. We have been active since December of this last year. It has taken a lot of preparation to get to this point, but it has been awesome!!! We meet right now, at least once a month and more when needed. Any parent on the council, has the authority to call an emergency meeting at anytime...
Steve: What has been the biggest contribution of your Parent Council?
Kevin: Their kids! There is such a difference working with those students as opposed to working with the students whose parents aren't involved in the spiritual formation of their lives! These are the kids, who at first didn't want mom and dad around all the time, but now, they understand and have seen what having a relationship with your parents that is rooted in the deepest of relationships...the one with Christ, what it can do for them. They are more confident knowing mom and dad are right behind them. Most of our kids know that mom and dad pray for them, but it is completely different when they are praying WITH them! Our parents who are on the council have really bought in to the concept and reality of the church is not the primary discipler, they are and the church was created to come along side of and partner with the parents. We always lead them to the point of Pray, Partner and Practice! The insight that our parents have is incredible. We have, in just a short time, seen their goals change from: "I just want my kid to stay out of drugs and trouble" to "we want to see our child run hard after Christ and continue their journey." It's been pretty amazing! They are eager to continue to learn and to go farther. Our parents energy and insight have been amazing. As a pastor, I have truly felt more confident and on the right path than I ever have before. These parents understand what needs to happen and they pull for it and they pull for you.
Steve: What has been the biggest blessing that the members of your council have received?
Kevin: Their kids! They have gotten to see their kids in a completely different way. They have gotten new ways to encourage their students and to really let them know they love them and want the best for them. In talking with some of the students, they are getting to see a whole new set of parents. Yes, they still encourage them in the sports, band, choir, drama and whatever else, but first and foremost they are encouraging them in their walk with God. They are seeing their parents put into practice Deuteronomy 6:7; they are talking about their faith when they sit at home, when they are walking on the road, when they lie down and when they get up. Their parents are not only praying for them, but praying with them on a daily basis and that does nothing but build the confidence and drive of a teenager! When they eat, they are reading the Bible...just simple short stories, but they are doing it as a family! One of the side bars that happen, is that our PC members have grown in their faith. Enough so that their kids and the students around them know what's important to them...not sports, or jobs or money...but God and their pursuit of Him. That's been one of the coolest things for me to be able to witness. Steve: What are you and your Parent Council currently working on? Dreaming together?
Kevin: We are working on a model that will begin with our 7th grade parents. To pull them in and to begin the process then with their students. Our parents are pretty ambitious...they want to be able to break up into teams and lead other parents for a year, then split and continue until they have reached all parents, which they know will never happen; thus the journey will continue on forever! But, they are really excited to start from the "beginning" of student ministry and change the dastardly rate of students leaving the student ministry and the church. We are working on setting core values for each age group so we can have a measuring stick and these line up with our 15 core values for the entire student/family ministry. Each parent or parents are praying about a couple or a single parent and by the end of summer will start to invest into them and begin the branching off of mobilizing parents to be the leaders. It's really pretty exciting.
Steve: What is something that you have learned about working with a team of parents like this that you would share with other student pastors?
Kevin: Don't look at it like it's something you should look into, look at as something you MUST do. Too many of us can get caught in the "the student pastor is the spiritual hero" mentality and what we don't realize is that we are crippling those students and families, rather than helping them. We get in the way and we hinder the growth of the nucleus and the percentage of students who leave the church after high school will continue to rise and the next generation of Christ Followers will be even less than the 4% now who say they believe in God! As a person who has been in student ministry going on my 13th year, the joy of seeing "families" growing together, has far surpassed when a student would remember me in their speech or ask me to do their wedding. It's absolutely the most refreshing and challenging thing. It is a mind-set change and therefore takes a lot of effort, but it is so much more important! Pour into it, invest your ministry into it and let the ones who are going to be in the students lives for the rest of their lives, let them be the hero's, and transform a generation from the biblical foundation that it was created on!
Bradley Mabin
STEVE: Tell us a little about yourself?
BRADLEY: I am 31, buff...i mean, my name is Bradley Maybin and I have been married to my wife Emily for almost 6 years. We have one son who is 2 1/2. I am the student minister at First Baptist Church in Amarillo, Texas and have served on the student ministry staff here for 9 years. Our church web site is www.fbc-amarillo.org.
STEVE: What was your Damascus road experience in terms of ministering to parents?
BRADLEY: The start of our parent ministry began at Metro in 2005 and set the stage for me to pursue my thesis on the topic. I couldn't get past the Shema found in Deuteronomy 6:4-12 as the backbone of any successful parent ministry. Parents are to the primary discipler of their children and often times they have passed this responsibility off to others.
STEVE: What has your process look liked?
BRADLEY: Our process has been a little slow, however the heartbeat for our parents has changed and now I feel like we are better partners in raising Godly students. This summer we will take our parent ministry to a different level, as we will minister to the parents while their kids are at camp. We will give parents the opportunity to know what their child is studying. We will give them a prayer guide while we are away. I know that many ministries have done this for sometime, but this will be our first shot at this. I am excited to see how God will use this time.
STEVE: How would you encourage other student pastors?
BRADLEY: As Steve Wright said in reThink, "we have one guarantee as student ministers, all of our students will graduate from our ministry. Parents however, will always be there for their children." If we don't invest in the parents, then there is no way we can effectively minister to their children. Parent Ministry was the most neglected area of my ministry in my first decade of service.
STEVE: Were your parents ready to receive the message?
BRADLEY: Our parents were hungry for anything we fed them. At times I don't feel that they were ready to hear what we were saying, but they loved every minute of it! It has created a time for our parents to have conversations with each other and to encourage one another, which is very healthy.
STEVE: How did you cast vision?
BRADLEY: This might not be the most effective way...but we just started. I came back from Metro in 2005 and started researching and the more information I found the more information I sent on to the parents. In the Spring of 2006 we offered a six week forum that included statistics, trends, Biblical framework, along with conversation and to this day that conversation has not stopped! We have also begun to incorporate ‘parent events' which is an intentional way to get parents involved.
STEVE: Did anything change for you personally at home?
BRADLEY: Since my son is so young, I have been able to rethink the way we want to raise him. So, YES a lot has changed. Even with a 2 ½ year old, it is neat to hear him say, "When God brings the sun up in the morning, that means it is time to get up." I think that is a great start, but only the beginning of where we desire for him to go.
STEVE: What has been the biggest blessing for you, your wife and your family?
BRADLEY: Knowing that we are not parenting alone! There are so many parents who are better at parenting than us. We have really tried to take note of how kids end up and talk with the parents to see what they did correctly. God ultimately is guiding us, while using others in our life to guide us.
STEVE: How has your church been most blessed?
BRADLEY: I feel like most of our parents know more now and are being equipped to be better disciplers. I think our children's ministry has begun to implement activities to begin to foster the healthy relationships between parent and child. I hope that we can further that relationship and lead them (parent/child) to a path that produces Godly men and women.
Chris Swan
Greensboro, NC.
Steve: How long have you been in local church ministry?
Chris:16 years
Steve: How long have you served as student pastor at your current church?
Chris: 3 years
Steve: Are all the pastors on your church staff on the same page as it relates to an Integrated ministry Model?
Chris: It was apparent from the beginning stages that the staff was together in addressing the serious problems facing our families and churches. Our staff never had a philosophic disagreement concerning integrated ministry, they had simply never been a part of a truly integrated ministry model. Every pastor on our staff has come from a "silo" model of ministry where each ministerial area has been added on as the church grew. Our staff has entered into a dialogue concerning the implementation of an integrated ministry model. As we joined in prayer and discussed where we were, the group grew closer together and lacked only clarity - where do we go from here? Our last Staff Retreat (May 2008) was great confirmation. Everybody had feedback, ideas, and input. We have really good momentum at this point to keep moving with the process.
Steve: How did this happen? How long have you been in this transition?
Chris: God has been putting this group together for family ministry focus. A couple of us recognize that this has been something He has been doing in our hearts and lives for a few years. As we have led our families, we have realized the need for us to disciple our own children. So, this has risen out of our personal experiences with our families, our study of God's Word, our ministerial experiences, the state of families within the church, and our overall dissatisfaction of the results we have experienced in ministry. In November of 2007 our Married Adult Pastor and I exchanged books (Building Faith at Home & Rethink). We knew we needed to do something. When we pulled in other staff members for lunch, we agreed to meet for prayer for a period of time (repentance, unity and vision). Then we met again to say, "let's go." Rodney and I met in March/April of 2008 to aim for presentation at the staff retreat in May. We began working on a grid to convey major discipleship truths at each stage of childhood. We wanted to equip the parents to be the primary disciple makers. As I shared the vision at the retreat, consensus has continued to build. We knew that our strategy must be integrated if it is to be successful. The principles of family ministry must be implemented in pre-marital counseling and nurtured in young couples so they start correctly. The training done by parents for their toddlers determines the teenager that their children will become. Our transition has just begun. We started by reading several books together and have been discussing the integrated model for several months along the with the implications of making the transition in our ministry setting. This will be the major subject in our May 2008 staff retreat.
Steve: How has your church and students reacted to this transition?
Chris: We have been processing this in the student ministry for about three years and the reaction has been very positive. We have just begun processing in our church at large and really have not gotten much reaction to date.
Steve: What key scriptures have driven your church to make these changes?
Chris:
- Deuteronomy 6:1-9
- Joshua 24:15
- Judges 2:8-13
- Matthew 28:19-20
- John 2:12-14
- Luke 2:52
- Luke 8:4-15
- Proverbs 22:6
- Ephesians 4:11-12, 5, 6
Steve: What insight would you give to other churches that are making this same transition?
Chris: Talk to other people and expose yourself to books and resources that will help you to understand the philosophical ramifications of a holistic, integrated approach to family ministry. Process is important. The staff has taken ownership together (prayer/dialogue). No credit, no blame. Just trying to understand how God wants to work through our families and our church to honor His name.
Fred Broome
Middle School Pastor
Ingleside Baptist Church
Steve: Tell us about your family?
Fred: I have been married to my wife, Lindsey, for almost 5 years. Lindsey and I met at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. We have two children. Joshua is 2 ½ and Anna
Bell is 16 months old. We also are expecting our third in December.
Steve: Tell us about the church you grew up in?
Fred: I did not grow up in the church. A friend invited me to attend church with him when I was 15, and I gave my life to Christ shortly thereafter. Unfortunately, this church split a few months later, and I ended up at Parkwood Baptist in Gastonia, NC. Parkwood had an amazing youth ministry under Pastor Jeff Long. Jeff did a great job of involving the families of students, and even organized a yearly family camp called "Family Matters." I have many great memories under Jeff's leadership.
Steve: When did you feel called to ministry?
Fred: I began to feel a call to vocational ministry at the age of 18. Over the next couple of years, God confirmed that calling in my life and gave me a passion for student ministry. I pursued that calling immediately by interning at Parkwood and by serving in other ministry areas.
Steve: What has been your biggest disappointment in ministry? Fred: My biggest disappointment in ministry was being too busy to worship God because I was too busy "working" for God. Every experienced youth pastor warns us about this mistake, and still I fell into it. It seems that this will be a struggle that I'll have to face as long as I am in the ministry.
Steve: What is the weirdest habit that you have?
Fred: I'd probably say that I crack my toes more than the average human.
Steve: What creative ways are you seeking to hand ministry off to parents?
Fred: Most recently, I have started e-mailing my parents the Scripture for the lesson on the following Sunday. For instance, this Sunday, I'm speaking from Numbers 21. I've already sent our parents an e-mail giving them the Scripture reference. I also give them questions and other thoughts to help them digest the passage. Then, I encourage them to have a family devotional time during the week where they'll cover Numbers 21. The idea is for our parents to teach this passage, and then I can reinforce what they've already taught. I'm hoping that our parents are realizing that I am here to supplement what they are already doing. Apart from that, I am planning a parenting conference for the Fall. I am also developing a Family Leadership Team (as mentioned in reThink) that will help us encourage our parents. Truthfully, we are in the infant stages of handing ministry back to parents. I am in the process of developing this crucial aspect of our ministry. Of our 51 leaders in the Middle School ministry, approximately 85 % of them are parents. We want them to get involved in this ministry and to lead it.
Steve: Why are you giving your parents your text before you preach it? Do you think the students get tired of hearing it twice?
Fred: You see, if I give the students questions to take home after I teach the lesson, I'm giving parents the idea that they are to supplement what I am teaching. Instead, I want them to understand their primary role as teacher and my secondary role as their supporter and equipper. I'm saying to them, "If you'll teach it, I'll follow up on what you've already taught." What I am finding thus far is that our parents are teaching on these Scriptures, and our students are able to digest them over the course of one week. They do not get tired of hearing it twice, because I teach them in a different way than they receive at home.
Steve: How has this approach strengthened your relationship with parents and added dept to your students?
Fred: Our parents sense that I am on their team. They understand that I am their biggest fan. They are beginning to see that I want wholeheartedly for them to be successful in training their children in the Lord. So far, several parents have responded to thank me for giving them an idea of what we're learning and for giving them the chance to review it with their children. Now please don't misunderstand; all of our parents have not responded this way. There are many that I haven't heard from to this date. I'll give you an example of what this is doing for our students. Every Sunday at our worship team band practice I ask our students what they've learned from the Bible during the past week. Usually, many of the answers are vague. After the first week of sending out these e-mails, our band came together and I asked them the question again. 4 of the students said they'd read Exodus 1-4, and could explain the calling of Moses. I asked them why they'd all chosen these passages, and they offered that their parents had read them together as a family. That's 4 families that came on board in just one week!
Steve: What does family worship look like at the Broome house?
Fred: We typically start out with a time of singing. I play the guitar and my wife sings. We usually sing a song that our kids know from PraiseBaby or Hillsong Kids. Then, we read the scripture together. I try to have a visual aid to help them learn. Then, we pray together. Granted, we have a 2 year old and a 1 year old, so it's always interesting.
Dennis Tinsley
Student Pastor
Steve: Tell us a little about yourself.
Dennis: I am currently serving as Minister to Students at Dahlonega Baptist Church in Georgia. My family and I are approaching our fifth year in Dahlonega at DBC. My wife Deidre and I have two munchkin boys, Michael (6) and Parker (9 months) with another due on Thanksgiving day this year. We are so excited. I love buffalo wings, whitewater rivers and seeing God move in unbelievable ways in the families in our church.
Steve: What is the biggest frustration you have had concerning student ministry?
Dennis: I would say that the biggest frustration in ministry to me has been seeing the lack of impact in students lives based on lack of involvement from parents. It truly is heartbreaking to me for our youth ministry to have to step into the role of surrogate parent. We have a stratum of students involved in our youth ministry that are growing into awesome disciples yet have no support at home. They are serving on mission trips, they are memorizing God's Word, and they are praying for their friends and being witnesses. And every bit of that is due to their own faith without the involvement of parents. What concerns me is that I know that the youth ministry can only do so much to support that spiritual growth in their lives. I recently sat down with John, a junior in our youth ministry that is in that boat, and had a very blunt conversation with him. I told him that I pray for him a lot and that I am concerned for him and other students in our church that don't have great family lives and no positive spiritual influences in their family. I told him that I worry what his spiritual life will look like five years after his graduation day. Will he still be passionate about Christ? His answer was brutally honest. He said, "Well Dennis, I can really see where you would be concerned. But right now I can't see turning away from Christ. I'm not sure what I'll be doing five years from now though. Keep praying for me." I can think of students right now who have passed through ministries that I have worked with that are no where near having a vibrant, dynamic walk with the Lord. That is in large part due to lack of parents as disciples. And that scares me for students I am working with at this time.
Steve: Have you ever had a time when you wanted to throw the towel in?
Dennis: There were times early on in ministry when it seemed I was always asking God, "What am I doing here? Is what you have called me to do even practical? I mean come on God, you expect me to make a difference? I guess what I've learned though is something that many of us have probably even taught someone else at one time or another; that God only expects us as ministers to be obedient, not to save the world. A verse that has really helped me to stay focused during those times has been Proverbs 3:3,4 "Let love and faithfulness never leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of you heart. Then you will win favor in the sight of God and man." It's almost like God is saying, "Dennis, make love and faithfulness so much a part of yourself that it's like something you wear around your neck. Or even better, make it so much a part of who you are that it's like it's written on your very heart." That's encouraging!
Steve: What has been the greatest encouragement to you concerning a biblical model of ministry?
Dennis: I would think that greatest encouragement I see is the fact that it works. Parents being the primary disciplers is not just biblical but entirely practical. I found that parents are very similar to Achilles in the movie "Troy" (yes I realize it was a book first) When Agamemnon and his general are discussing utilizing Achilles in their war with the Trojans, Agamemnon is reluctant because of his disagreements with Achilles. He says that Achilles just cannot be controlled. The general's answer to this objection is brilliant. "You don't control Achilles, you just release him." That is what I have found to be the case with parents. We don't control parents. We equip them, encourage them, minister to them, help them, and pray with them and for them. But then ultimately we release them. Allow them to be the parents that God has called them to be to their children. What I found when we started doing just that is that a lot of parents were literally chomping at the bit to lead their kids spiritually. It was almost like some of them needed permission to step into that role.
Steve: How are you encouraging parents as the primary disciplers of their children?
Dennis: We have begun offering what can appropriately be called a parent's roundtable group. This is a group of parents that meet together on a regular basis to pray for each other and continue to learn these principles of being disciplers. In those roundtables, our parents are being encouraged in their own discipleship so that they can be more effective disciplers at home. We started really pushing some of our parents to do the same thing we do at church; to set a high standard for their student's discipleship. Do scripture memory as a family. Take on a family service project by helping another family with some yard work. We especially try to encourage our dads to be men that love and discipline their kids. Dads need to be teaching their sons what it means to "man up" and be a man that loves Jesus. They also need to be dads that teach their daughters how special they are, and the way Godly men are supposed to act. These roundtable groups are designed to equip and unleash our parents.
Steve: How do you minister to students whose parents aren't involved?
Dennis: One on one contact with those parents is always a very good thing. Reaching out and building those relationships is vitally important to a family-centered ministry. Youth ministers no longer need to see themselves as just responsible for outreach to teens, but to families. Giving those parents every opportunity to get to know us and our ministry is key. The truth is that my view of myself as a student minister has changed drastically over the past few years. I no longer see myself only as a YOUTH minister, but as a family minister. It's kind of similar to something that Peter experienced, I think. In Acts 10 we are told about his exchange with Cornelius, a Gentile. Peter had a real problem loving Gentiles and leading them spiritually. But God taught him in a very vivid way that he was supposed to minister to everybody; including Gentiles; including Cornelius. Peter's view, as himself as a minister to Jews only, took a huge leap beyond that. So should ours. It needs to go beyond age limitations to household ministry. I mean how often have we erroneously thought of ourselves as only ministers to teens rather than the other adults that surround those teens? Another thing that I have found effective is letting some of our parents that are involved have opportunities to interact with those parents that are not involved. As we plan things like parent/student cook-outs, we have parents that see themselves as ministers to those parents that we never see. They too try to build relationships with them and get to know them. It's been awesome to see our parent's community grow to include other families.
Steve: Give us one story that communicates what God is doing in families in your church?
Dennis: One of my son's favorite stories is "The Giving Tree" by Shel Silverstien. In that story, a boy and a tree are best friends. But as the boy grows older he and the tree grow apart. The tree over the course of the boy's life gives him all his apples to sell and make money. He gives him all his branches so the boy can build a house. He gives him his trunk, so he can carve out a boat and sail away. Finally the boy returns at the end of his life to find only a stump. The tree gave everything because he loved the boy, and now at the end he is an old stump that the boy can sit on. And the tree was happy because they were together. If you haven't read it, it's a great parable for giving away all that you are for the benefit of someone else. We recently had a retreat weekend for our parents and students together. We took several students and parents skiing. We concluded the weekend at our church with a lunch designed to solidify the commitments that students and parents made to one another that weekend. During that lunch, we asked parents and students to sit in circles with one another. We placed students that didn't have either parent present with someone that has been a significant leader to them. I asked my son if we could read "The Giving Tree" together to our parents and students. He agreed, so during that lunch as students and parents sat together, we read this children's story as a parable to those families. It was obvious to those parents, as it is to us, what they were called to give to their children. What followed was an awesome time of commitment between parents and students, including Michael and I.
Steve: What is on the horizon? What are you currently working on that will encourage parents?
Dennis: Right now, I'm trying to get some small group material together for the Fall semester for our students. We want a small group for them about, "How to be a Godly Son or Daughter". We are trying to take Proverbs, Timothy, Titus and some other material and put it into a small group format. Our parents will be looking at some similar material during their roundtables to augment what their students are learning. I'm super excited about students and parents seeing what Godly families look like. It's still developing though, so pray for our leaders.
Steve: What does 1Tim 3:5 mean to you?
Dennis: Oh wow!!! To me this is where the rubber meets the road. I mean what kind of man is it that can even really speak to or deal with the spiritual health of other families if he hasn't already made the commitment to spiritually lead his own family. To Deidre and I, Michael and Parker (and our future child) are our legacy. Deidre and I have prayed for our kids and cried for them and their walk with the Lord. We see them as a very real tangible act of worship from us to God. One of the things I committed to when Michael was very young was that whatever I did for families I was ministering to, I would do at least that for him. So if I write a card or an encouragement letter to a family, I would write one to Michael also, and now also to Parker. If I spend some time praying for a particular student or adult, I try to expend that much more energy praying for my own sons and their own love for Christ. Deidre and I desperately want them to be strong, fine young men for the Lord. The challenge, I guess for all of us as ministers, is to keep the main thing, the main thing. God let's me know in this verse what the main thing is: Being a Godly man to my family first and foremost.
J.C. Kimmer
Suffolk, VA
Steve: Tell us a little about yourself and your ministry? What size church would you consider your church to be?
J.C. Kimmer: I am a graduate of Liberty University; served in a large (1000+) Atlanta area church for approx 5 years. Three years ago I began serving a growing church in Virginia that matches my philosophy and theology to the T. We average about 400 in attendance each Sunday morning.
Steve: Do you believe the traditional model of student ministry is working? Why or why not?
J.C. Kimmer: No. Statistics of teens leaving the church have barely budged in decades. Parents have not embraced the privilege of raising spiritual giants within their home. Youth pastors have been reduced to Activity Directors to "do something with the kids." Churches need to take discipleship as serious as parents!
Steve: There is a group of churches in your area that are transitioning to an "Integrated Ministry Model". How did this happen?
J.C. Kimmer: Area Student Ministers meet together (several denominations) on a monthly basis to strategize, encourage, and fellowship. Our group leader introduced reThink to us. We all read it and discussed its ramifications at our following meetings.
Steve: What is your understanding of the two institutions that God has given to us and why do you feel they are so vital?
J.C. Kimmer: God established the family and commissioned parents to train up children within the boundaries of His word. Later, the church was revealed and intended to co-disciple. Children left to their own decisions, will generally make unwise choices. Try asking them what they want for lunch. Without a God-centered family and church, children and new Christians would simply be experimenting at life. The family and church are the keys to equipping God's people to experiencing abundant life on earth while affecting the world.
Steve: What is your church doing practically to Resource, Train and Involve parents?
J.C. Kimmer: Not as much as we could be. We offer 8 week courses on Sunday nights each Fall and Winter. These courses cover: parenting, disciplining, discipling, money management, etc... After reading reThink, I've written down many strategies to implement within the next 18 months. The least of which is a simple parent meeting before school starts- to communicate vision to parents and request their help in several areas, and find out what they value at home so that we can reinforce it at church.
Steve: Have you had a difficult time in your transition?
J.C. Kimmer: I actually don't believe I'll have much of a transition. Our pastor has been preaching "reThink Theology" before the book came out. But, I'm not sure how I'll receive desirable results. I want total buy-in. But, we always seem to have parents that want the church to "fix" their kid. Education will be the key.
Steve: What scriptures serve as the foundation and guide to your ministry now?
J.C. Kimmer: Deuteronomy 6
Steve: How would you rate your parent's response as you have encouraged them to partner with you in ministry?
J.C. Kimmer: Parents want to be involved. For years, traditional student ministry has forced them out.
Steve: Any advice that you would give to other student pastors?
J.C. Kimmer: Read the book. If you are not part of an established network, get at least 9 other Student Ministers to read it with you (3 churches your size, 3 smaller, 3 larger- no matter the denomination). As you read, underline in the book. Write in the margins. Ideas will come to mind of ways to revamp ministry at your church. Write down all these ideas on the blank pages at the back of your book. Come back and discuss the first half of the book with the group of ministers. Meet again for the second half. Set aside a ½ day on your calendar specifically to plan and implement your ideas. Apply them to a 12 month church calendar.
Nick Kennicott, www.reformingstudents.com
Pastor to Students
Ephesus Church, Savannah, Georgia
STEVE: Tell us about yourself.
NICK: I'm not a southerner, but I live in the south near Savannah, Georgia. I grew up in Parker, Colorado. Through the persistence of some close friends and their families, God saved me when attending various children's ministries around the area I lived in when I was fairly young (maybe around 8-10 years of age). I moved to Santa Fe/Los Alamos, New Mexico, in high school with my family and graduated from Los Alamos High School as the student body president, as well as a member on my district board for Key Club International. I was also very active in my local area YoungLife, later proved to be a very influential ministry in my life. I went to the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque for two years, majoring in political science. (I was working as a legal assistant and pursuing what I thought to be a future career in politics!) After these two confusing, dark, and fruitless years, I repented for my spiritual apathy and God led me into the United States Army for a complete change of course. I met my future wife, Felicia, two months before I left for basic training. I was eventually stationed in Savannah, GA, and served for four years as an airborne Ranger in the 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment. In those 4 years, I was deployed 6 different times (3 Afghanistan, 3 Iraq) to include visits to 15 other countries. About halfway through my military career, I got married and also sensed a call into pastoral ministry. I continued my college education while in the Army and ended up with a degree focus in biblical studies at the Baptist College of Florida. Shortly after I was out of the Army, I was called to serve as the associate pastor of a church in our local area. Later, God led us to Ephesus Church, where I currently serve as a pastor with a primary responsibility in student ministry (birth - college).
STEVE: Do you have any strange hobbies?
NICK: I don't think they're strange, but a lot of other people do! I race in long-course triathlons (Ironman distances) and marathons. That's anywhere from 26.2 miles of running to 140.6 miles of swim/bike/run. I'm also an avid reader with 5-6 reading projects going at one time. I read about three books per week. I also enjoy photography, blogging, fishing, and golfing.
STEVE: What is the biggest mistake you have ever made in ministry?
NICK: I'll share the two biggest mistakes: 1. Not spending enough time telling the congregation that I am always preaching to myself just as much as I am preaching to them. It's easy for me to assess what should be done in our lives for the glory of God -- it's completely different to consistently model these things. God has worked many things in my life to be sources of sanctification, and I hope to be "always reforming." I want my people to know that. 2. Moving too fast. Since I read a lot, I can sometimes jump to an ideal or focus too quickly without leading appropriately. Fortunately, the Lord has made me to be an over-organized person, so those habits force me to slow down sometimes or else I feel too unorganized! I hope that makes sense!
STEVE: You say of your blog that student ministry as we know it is in HUGE trouble. Why do you believe this? www.reformingstudents.com
NICK: I think it is because the Church has spent the last 30 years convincing parents that it is the church's responsibility to moralize and motivate their children, and many parents have bought into it. This has led to success being measured in numbers and numbers dictating what goes on in the church. It's a dangerous mix because in the end, attractional models are developed, the gospel is lost, and the church becomes a holding tank for teenagers to have fun in a safe environment. They launch into college without ever having been truly discipled (by their parents), without a love for the church because everything else that's going on seems too "grown-up," and without any kind of theological understanding of what they believe and why they believe it. In the end, the Church's responsibility is not moralizing and motivating -- these are products of genuine faith which I believe the Lord graciously gives to those children who are faithfully discipled by their parents. The Church should see its role as providing training and resources for parents/families, as well as some supplementation in teaching the Bible with a predominate emphasis on systematic theology. Student ministry can be fun, but that shouldn't be what it's known for. In much of the American Church today, we're entertaining students to death. We expect far too little of them -- they are very smart and we need to get parents to tap into these very formative years by helping them as much as we can. In the end though, we must be careful how we do that. I often tell the parents in my church, "I can't do your job and I won't do your job." That's a big paradigm shift for a lot of people.
STEVE: How would you encourage pastors in smaller rural churches to make the changes that are necessary?
NICK: The smaller the church, the harder the change, BUT the smaller the church, the closer the relationships. That being said, I would encourage pastors in smaller rural churches to spend a lot of time with individual families explaining the paradigm shift and comparing it to the undeniable evidence of the failure of much of what has gone on in the Church over the last several decades. Study a lot, take it slow, make a lot of breakfast, lunch, and dinner appointments with parents, and slowly start to scale down the large-scale student ministry machine. I would also recommend providing the church with a lot of resources to read and study regarding the role and work of parenting. Lastly, I would spend a lot of time talking about family worship and encouraging the congregation to start doing it on a regular basis. When parents see that they can do this in their own living room, they start to see that their discipling role doesn't need to be relegated to a professional -- it's their kid, they are the professional.
STEVE: How long has your church been in this transition?
NICK: That's hard to say. Thankfully, the Lord has blessed me by allowing this to have always been my focus in student ministry. I never really went through a paradigm shift. So when I got to Ephesus Church, this is where things were going. The expectation was there that someone new was going to do things differently, but I must say that the foundation was laid for years before I got there. Our students have some great theological minds and great relationships with their parents. Our church also has a classical Christian school as a ministry, with a focus on parental involvement, so that has also helped with propagating the focus. What I've spent my time on is getting our student ministry team to continue to reach out to the parents who are not involved, and I personally have been helping the entire church understand why we don't have a bunch of games and social activities from week to week. The last 10 years at Ephesus have really gotten the ball rolling so I could hit the ground running when I got here last year.
STEVE: What are you doing in your home to be a faithful pastor?
NICK: 5 quick things come to mind: 1. Private worship: I want be consistent in my private worship and I want my wife to see me doing it for encouragement and accountability. I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't keep this discipline going every day -- it's an area that I talk to our people about all the time. 2. Family worship: Every night we discuss a book that we are reading together, read a chapter of the Bible and discuss what we learn from that chapter, and pray together on Kingdom-focused issues (i.e. missions, persecuted church, ministries, etc.) 3. Live-in discipleship: We have a 20 year old guy living with us because of several circumstances that led to his being without a home. We are helping him learn how to be a responsible adult to include finances (budgeting, tithing, paying bills, balancing checkbook, etc.), private worship, family worship (he joins us in ours), and very strict accountability. We have taken over in discipleship where non-believing parents could not function for his good. 4. TV: We booted the TV, DVD player, and Playstation2 to the closet. It has given us a lot more quiet and a lot more time. We were never big TV watchers, but it was on in the background a lot. There is more junk than good that comes through, so I decided that we didn't need to be listening to it. Movies waste a lot of time, and video games... well, obviously those are nothing but time wasters! It has extended our family worship time, given us more personal conversations, and has instilled even more solemnity to the overall focus of our household, namely to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. 5. Open door: We always have Ephesus Church people at our house -- mostly college students, but also a lot of teenagers with their families. I want to build community any way that I can. I get a sense from Acts 2:42-47 that there were very few hours during the day when believers were alone in their homes. The true meaning of fellowship is that we have all things in common -- to include our homes and possessions. The common phrase "my house is your house" (mi casa es su casa) has a lot of biblical wisdom packed within it. I want to make sure that's going on in our congregation, so it has to start with me.
STEVE: Many student pastors do not feel that are given the respect they deserve. Why do you feel this is such an issue?
NICK: This has been very misunderstood by people who assume that churches only have one pastor. Unfortunately, over time, local congregations have done away with the biblical model of a plurality of elders or a multiplicity of pastors, and have adapted a committee led or CEO model church structure that does a great disservice to both the congregation and the leadership. This is the structure that exists in most American evangelical churches. As a result, roles that can more effectively be filled by men called to serve as pastors are instead filled by "youth guys," "youth dudes," or "youth directors" (to name a few), placing a very low emphasis on the importance of biblical criteria for eldership simply because the man serving the student ministry is not the one that is seen as the pastor of the church. The level of respect he receives is compromised. The willingness of the congregation to confide in him as a counselor and/or leader of the church is diminished. The openness of the church to his preaching and teaching in other areas is defined as "practice" for when he will, hopefully one day, grow up a little bit, get more experience under his belt and get "his own church." All of this is said, of course, under the misunderstanding of the fact that the church doesn't belong to a pastor, nor a team of elders, but rather to Christ, and Christ alone. It is He that the people belong to. It is He that the ministries are supposed to be created to glorify. It is He that calls the elders and deacons of churches. Christ is the head of the church, not a single man that is being told what to do by various groups of committees. Pastors will not always be involved in the same types of ministry within the local church. I will not always be the one preaching on Sunday morning, although I love to and feel gifted in my abilities to do so. I will not always be the one that is counseling members of the congregation in my office, but feel very comfortable doing so. I will not always be the one doing all of the various roles of a pastor within the local church - but that does not mean that I am not a pastor. What it does mean is that in pastoral ministry, there are certain areas in each local church that require varied types of leadership. Where I have been and currently am serving the church, I am a pastor that works in student ministry - just like others work in preaching ministry (primarily), some in education ministry, family ministry, counseling ministry, etc. I think these are all great areas of pastoral ministry. But too often the people within local congregations get it wrong by assuming that he who preaches most often is the pastor of the church. Pastors are called by God to a specific task, and to strip us of that is to diminish our work within the church.
STEVE: Can you give us a key scripture that is guiding your churches student ministry right now?
NICK: 1 Corinthians 10:31: "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."
Kenneth Bruce
Porter Memorial Baptist Church
4300 Nicholasville Road Lexington, KY
Tell us about yourself?
My name is Kenneth Bruce. I became a believer at the age of 18 and had a radical change in lifestyle. God changed my heart and my life instantly: I went from persecuting Christians to becoming one. When I got to UK I was discipled one on one with another guy, served in a campus ministry (FCA) and got plugged into Porter Memorial Baptist Church. God lead me to surrender to the call to ministry and I met my wife Kristy. We have been married almost 4 years and have one son, Noah.
What excites you most about ministry?
I love seeing students mature in their faith and gain a personal passion for evangelism.
What has God been teaching you lately?
God has been laying on my heart a burden to pray for revival. I'm talking about where God moves in Lexington to the point that people are broken over sin and radically commit their lives to Christ.
What role has your church traditionally seen parents playing in the lives of their students?
Our church strikes a balance of the 'drop off' mentality and parental involvement in the life of the student ministry. I have some parents that are discipling their kids, some that don't know how, and some that don't want to even try. Parents know that they are important but don't know HOW to disciple their kids.
What are a few small things your church is doing to change this?
I started a parenting class during our Sunday night Discipleship Training that taught parents about culture, teenage development, and how to lead them spiritually. This summer I'm going to be doing a 'family night' where families will sit down and have a meal together, play some silly games, and I will teach the parents how to lead a family devotion.
What role do you see Senior Pastors playing in this process of change?
There is no question that the best way to inspire parents to lead their families spiritually is from the pulpit. A top down leadership that points parents in this direction is crucial.
Do you have a story that illustrates a victory that you have seen?
The biggest victory I have seen, came a month ago when I was given the opportunity to preach on a Sunday morning. I preached on Deut. 6 and how the parents are to be the primary disciplers of their children. I have had a lot people tell me that they had no idea that that was their role or even where to start. They just thought it was the pastors job to teach their kids. Some parents have begun family worship times and have told me how great it has been for their family.
How would you say "theology" is now driving your ministry?
Biblical theology drives the student ministry because that is how we are commanded to do ministry (I Tim. 4:13-16). God has not called me to be a babysitter or recreation director. I am a pastor-theologian who is called to shepherd a people group of the adolescent demographic. My mission that God has lead me to in ministry is to: raise up a generation of teenagers that are passionate for Christ, think biblically, and have a desire to take the gospel to the nations. The vision that I believe God has called me to fulfill is to raise up some students who take the gospel all over the earth; and I want to produce at least one missionary from my ministry to be in every country before I die. Theology drives my passion for that purpose.
Anything else you want to say, mention or lesson learned?
The current youth ministry model is not working. I have known for a year that God wants a family based, biblical model, but I can't figure out what that looks like. All that I know how to do is all that I have seen done. I just want to put together a ministry that brings the family in to their rightful place as the primary disciplers.
Timothy Lipp
Smithfield, VA
STEVE: Tell us a little about yourself and you ministry? What size church would you consider your church to be?
TIMOTHY: I'm 30 years old and I have been on staff as a youth pastor for about 8 years. Our youth group has about 30-40 youth attending. I would consider our church to be a average size church.
STEVE: Do you believe the traditional model of student ministry is working? Why or why not?
TIMOTHY: No, I don't think our traditional model of ministry works because the numbers of youth graduating from High School and then never darkening the doors of a church again are astounding. The traditional model of church is to keep the youth separated from the adults and the rest of the church. The Youth worship together, do Bible Study together, and pretty much experience church separate from the rest of their family. It is thought that the best leaders are young adults without children that can connect and relate to them better. The problem is that once they graduate from High School and go one to college or a career, they don't have the support of the youth group any more and no one is dropping them off at church and they have to make a decision for themselves what to do. Most youth will choose to sleep in on Sunday morning in college rather than go to church. The youth pastor is busy with keeping the current youth "program" going, so he doesn't have time to keep in touch with these youth, so who is going to do it? The parents for the most part have not had a huge role in discipling their youth, they have left it up to the church to lead them to Christ and to grow them in Christ, but we are not the best suited people to do so, parents are.
STEVE: There is a group of churches in your area that are transitioning to an "Integrated Ministry Model". How did this happen?
TIMOTHY: There is a network of youth ministers in our area of Southeastern Virginia that are considering what it would look like to transition into a "integrated Ministry Model", I would be lying if I was to say we are there, but we are trying to implement some of the things mentioned in "reThink" to get our parents involved in the lives of our youth. We came to this through the frustration of trying to do everything on our own without the help and support of parents. Most of us have some level of parental involvement, but most don't know how to be a part of their youth's spiritual development so training and accountability is going to be necessary.
STEVE: What is your understanding of the two institutions that God has given to us and why do you feel they are so vital?
TIMOTHY: Well as I see it God has Instituted Marriage or Family, and the Church, both of which are under heavy attack in our time. We know the divorce rate is high and most of our ministries involve youth that come from broken homes. The Church has been under the same pressures with bad publicity from scandals within our pastoral staff, leaving many people disillusioned about the need for church. I believe that God instituted marriage/family and church to play a very vital role in the Christian life. First the church is the people and not a building or structure, we often segregate ourselves with the walls we put up, the church is all Christians around the world. Secondly, the church is comprised of people from all different backgrounds and walks of life, but one thing we have in common is family. We may come from a broken or dysfunctional family home, but we all have a family that we belong to. It is clear in scripture that it is the family that God instituted, man and woman, to raise up children in the knowledge and understanding of God. In order for the church to function properly parents, mom and dad, need to be doing their part in teaching and helping their children grown in their understanding of who they are in Christ. There is no way 1 youth pastor or even a full staff of pastors can do it on our own, we need the parents to be the models of what is means to be a Christian.
STEVE: What is your church doing practically to resource, Train and involve parents?
TIMOTHY: Right now, we are not doing much more than informing parents about youth events and allowing them to come and chaperone our trips. We have tried conferences and many other studies to get them involved, but nothing has worked. I am looking at starting out by having a parent Bible Study to help parents learn how to lead at the same time I have student leadership training.
STEVE: Have you had a difficult time in your transition?
TIMOTHY: Yes, I think it is going to take time to change the mindset of doing things differently and having parents step up to be involved in the faith development of their youth. It is totally worth investing the time with your youth to ensure they are faithful followers of Christ as adults.
STEVE: What scriptures serve as the foundation and guide to your ministry now?
TIMOTHY: The Great Commission, Matthew 28:19-20
STEVE: How would you rate your parent's response as you have encouraged them to partner with you in ministry?
TIMOTHY: They are a bit hesitant to jump on board mainly because of the time constraints of their lives: work, sports, family, etc. I would say you have to give it time to work its way out. Once parents realize their role as spiritual guides and mentors to their youth, they don't need any more encouragement it's a priority.
STEVE: Any advice that you would give to other student pastors?
TIMOTHY: Be patient with parents as they have a difficult job to do in raising youth, but also don't be afraid to challenge them to go deeper and do more. Be an encourager and spiritual cheerleader for your parents, they need all the support they can get!
Josh Vaughan
Arlington, TX
STEVE: Tell us a little about yourself?
JOSH: I have worked with teenagers in some capacity since I was a senior in high school when I took on my first youth intern job. I am a self-proclaimed "geek" (I actually like school!), but my present church South Oaks Baptist Church in Arlington, TX (a suburb of Dallas, Fort Worth) called me anyways, and I have served there for the past three years while working on a Masters degree. I am married to Christi and have a 2 year old son Zakary who already loves basketball even more than I do!
STEVE: Why do you think it is important for the church to evaluate it current model?
JOSH: In a word, "faithfulness." I believe that the church, just like Israel in the Old Testament, will be judged by her faithfulness (see the word to the church in Philadelphia - Rev. 3:7-13). When my leadership team and I began to ask the question, "are we being faithful in leading students to become life-long disciples?," it became clear that we were judging ourselves by our "fruitfulness" (defined as our ability to get a bunch of students involved in our programming) not our faithful obedience to God's Word. Israel failed in her faithfulness to "teach them (God's ways) to your children and their children after them" (Deut. 4:9). It is my personal goal to raise and disciple my own children with my grandchildren in mind and to teach other Christian parents to do the same.
STEVE: How has your transition been going?
JOSH: We are now two years into rethinking our ministry. In many ways, God has shown us His favor. Parents are providing input on the direction and implementation of our weekly programming. We have parents hosting and leading other parents in prayer during youth camps and mission trips. We have a growing parent resource library that includes material reviewed by parents for parents. We are formulating "milestones" to help families invest spiritual significance in important life events. Most significantly, all of these initiatives were generated by parents who were convicted by the truth of God's Word and the urgency of our current situation. The primary area that we are still developing is equipping and motivating parents to have an intentional, one-on-one discipleship relationship with their child. There are many obstacles to overcome, but we are convinced that we are headed in the right direction.
STEVE: What is the greatest lesson you have learned personally during this time?
JOSH: The most important thing that I have learned during this time is that my job as a Christian parent is not complete until I have passed on the faith to my grandchildren. In light of this, my wife and I have prepared tools (such as a weekly guide to praying Scripture for our children) and traditions (such as a time capsule with notes of spiritual blessing from my son's grandparents) that our children will be able to use with their children.
STEVE: What encouragement would you give to others who are thinking about this transition?
JOSH: Be faithful to teach what God says about parenting, and you can trust that He will judge you by your faithfulness, not by the reactions that you get from others.
STEVE: What is the best way for guys in your area to get in touch with you? Email is the easiest (by this I mean cheapest.my teenagers are running up my text messaging bill!) way to get me: students@southoaks.org.
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